From c3c85c0f6a1b000b1e8f8bcd60f0bede6faa2e99 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Mike Taylor Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:22:40 +0000 Subject: [PATCH] Append --- archive/mbox | 703 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 703 insertions(+) diff --git a/archive/mbox b/archive/mbox index 60c8a0d..ffa1578 100644 --- a/archive/mbox +++ b/archive/mbox @@ -46,3 +46,706 @@ here on everything will speed up dramatically. )_v__/\ "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out" -- attributed to Carl Sagan. +From mike Wed Apr 18 09:17:34 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil t nil t nil nil] + ["2909" "Wednesday" "18" "April" "2007" "10:19:29" "+0300" "Juha Hakala" "juha.hakala@helsinki.fi" "<4625C681.10007@helsinki.fi>" "68" "IRSpy testing in Helsinki" "^X-Spam-Status:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-path: +Envelope-to: mike@indexdata.com +Delivery-date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:09:57 +0200 +Received: from bagel.indexdata.dk [213.150.43.11] + by localhost.localdomain with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.2) + for (single-drop); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:17:34 +0100 (BST) +Received: from sender-02.it.helsinki.fi ([128.214.205.137]) + by bagel.indexdata.dk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) + id 1He5Ef-00062G-4z; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:09:57 +0200 +Received: from orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (orm6.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.244]) + by sender-02.it.helsinki.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3I7J0Kh002108 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); + Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:19:00 +0300 +Received: from [128.214.91.248] (oktas-2.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.248]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3I7IxNC000394 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:18:59 +0300 +Message-ID: <4625C681.10007@helsinki.fi> +User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 128.214.205.137 +X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: mike@indexdata.com, quinn@indexdata.com +X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: juha.hakala@helsinki.fi +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on bagel.indexdata.dk +X-Spam-Level: +X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) +X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on bagel.indexdata.dk) +X-UIDL: =U8"!:1(!!Y23"!U6i!! +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham + version=3.0.3 +From: Juha Hakala +To: Mike Taylor +CC: Ere Maijala , + Katri Kananen , + Kristiina Hormia , + Ari Rouvari , + "Adam Horvath (adam@oszk.hu)" , + Esa Kurki , + Sebastian Hammer +Subject: IRSpy testing in Helsinki +Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:19:29 +0300 + +Hello Mike, + +After some internal discussions we have decided to proceed with the +IRSpy testing in the following manner: + +1. Initial testing, to be carried out by Ms. Katri Kananen, will +concentrate on end user point of view. Katri is very experienced copy +cataloger who is familiar with both Z39.50 and BookWhere. Comparing the +target data in BookWhere (which has been manually produced) and in IRSpy +will provide some views on how reliable automatically generated data is. +Since IRSpy contains more targets than BookWhere (2600 to about 2000) +Katri will also be able to add new targets to BookWhere and see how they +"work". + +2. After Katri has finished her part of the work in late May / early +June we'll proceed to technical testing, to be carried out by Ere +Maijala whose background is in programming. Since Ere's schedule is +tight (his main responsibility is our MetaLib/SFX portal) I am not sure +how much time he'll be able to spend on testing, but we'll see what +happens. Implementation of the new MetaLib version keeps Ere and his +colleagues busy for the time being. But we wish to complete testing +before summer vacations; I hope this is OK for ID. + +It is our belief that IRSpy will help us in two areas, BookWhere-based +copy cataloguing and MetaLib portal maintenance. The testers represent +these two areas, and the outcome of the test will already provide some +insights of how useful the tool will be, for the national library and +for the (Finnish) library network in general. + +If Adam and his colleagues are able to test this version of the +application (like they have tested earlier releases), we would like to +receive a report of the results too, in order to avoid re-inventing the +same wheels. + +I have taken a short look at IRSpy. One feature I missed was geographic +location (country) of the server, which in many cases could be easily +derived from the host name. Browsing an alphabetical list for Finnish +servers was rather frustrating, and a copy cataloguer would prefer a +country-based representation of servers. Moreover, there are quite a lot +of servers with 0 % reliability, eventually some kind of weeding +process should be implemented for the servers which obviously are no +longer functional at all or have moved to some other place. Presentation +of the supported attributes is as compact as it gets; lay users might +prefer a more verbose option should one be available. + +But in spite of these critical comments, I am quite happy with what I've +seen. The number of target systems is already quite impressive and is +likely to grow when IRSpy goes live. The system works fast enough, and I +like the looks of it. + +Best regards, + +Juha + +-- + +-- + + Juha Hakala + Director, Information Technology + + The National Library of Finland + P.O.Box 15 (Unioninkatu 36, room 503), FIN-00014 Helsinki University + Email juha.hakala@helsinki.fi, tel +358 50 382 7678 + + + + + +From mike@miketaylor.org.uk Wed Apr 18 12:42:50 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + ["4695" "Wednesday" "18" "April" "2007" "12:42:50" "+0100" "Mike Taylor" "mike@indexdata.com" nil "110" "IRSpy testing in Helsinki" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: mike +Delivered-To: mike@miketaylor.org.uk +Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id C1D79AC0F7; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:42:50 +0100 (BST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <17958.1082.518813.567339@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <4625C681.10007@helsinki.fi> +References: <4625C681.10007@helsinki.fi> +X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 +From: Mike Taylor +To: Juha Hakala +Cc: Ere Maijala , + Katri Kananen , + Kristiina Hormia , + Ari Rouvari , + "Adam Horvath (adam@oszk.hu)" , + Esa Kurki , + Sebastian Hammer , perhans@indexdata.dk +Subject: IRSpy testing in Helsinki +Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:42:50 +0100 + +Juha Hakala writes: + > Hello Mike, + > + > After some internal discussions we have decided to proceed with the + > IRSpy testing in the following manner: + > + > 1. Initial testing, to be carried out by Ms. Katri Kananen, will + > concentrate on end user point of view. Katri is very experienced + > copy cataloger who is familiar with both Z39.50 and + > BookWhere. Comparing the target data in BookWhere (which has been + > manually produced) and in IRSpy will provide some views on how + > reliable automatically generated data is. Since IRSpy contains + > more targets than BookWhere (2600 to about 2000) Katri will also be + > able to add new targets to BookWhere and see how they "work". + +OK, sounds good. + + > 2. After Katri has finished her part of the work in late May / + > early June we'll proceed to technical testing, to be carried out by + > Ere Maijala whose background is in programming. + +This seems an awfully long way into the future. + + > Since Ere's schedule is tight (his main responsibility is our + > MetaLib/SFX portal) I am not sure how much time he'll be able to + > spend on testing, but we'll see what happens. Implementation of the + > new MetaLib version keeps Ere and his colleagues busy for the time + > being. But we wish to complete testing before summer vacations; I + > hope this is OK for ID. + +I'll leave Per or Seb to comment on that. + + > It is our belief that IRSpy will help us in two areas, + > BookWhere-based copy cataloguing and MetaLib portal + > maintenance. The testers represent these two areas, and the outcome + > of the test will already provide some insights of how useful the + > tool will be, for the national library and for the (Finnish) + > library network in general. + > + > If Adam and his colleagues are able to test this version of the + > application (like they have tested earlier releases), we would like + > to receive a report of the results too, in order to avoid + > re-inventing the same wheels. + +Certainly. May we once more invite you to register all bugs, change +requests, etc. in the Bugzilla area? That way everyone can see +what everyone else has found and we can be sure that nothing gets forgotten. + http://bugzilla.indexdata.dk/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=IR-Spy&content= + + > I have taken a short look at IRSpy. One feature I missed was + > geographic location (country) of the server, which in many cases + > could be easily derived from the host name. + +The problem is that "in many cases" is not really good enough. You'll +have seen that there is indeed a Country field in the records, but we +feel that it is better to edit these by hand than to have a computer +make guesses. However -- + + > Browsing an alphabetical list for Finnish servers was rather + > frustrating, and a copy cataloguer would prefer a country-based + > representation of servers. + +Well, that's what searching is for! :-) + +If you want to narrow by domain-name, try this. Go to: + http://irspy.indexdata.com/find.html +In the "Host" field, enter + *.fi +Set the "Sort by" dropdown to + Title +And press the Search button. + +At the moment, there seems to be only one matching entry (which makes +the sorting criterion a bit irrelevant :-) This was a surprise to me, +but does seem to be correct. + + > Moreover, there are quite a lot of servers with 0 % reliability, + > eventually some kind of weeding process should be implemented for + > the servers which obviously are no longer functional at all or have + > moved to some other place. + +Yes. Someone will have to come up with heuristics -- I suppose +something simple such as "no successful connections in six months" +would be about right. + + > Presentation of the supported attributes is as compact as it gets; + > lay users might prefer a more verbose option should one be + > available. + +You mean this? + + Bib-1 Use attributes 36 access points: 1-9, 12-13, 16-19, + 21, 25, 28, 33-44, 47, 1003, 1007, + 1016, 1035-1036 + +You're thinking that users might prefer to see "33, 34, 35, 36, 37, +38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44" rather than "33-44"? I have to say that +does not seem likely to me. + + > But in spite of these critical comments, I am quite happy with what + > I've seen. The number of target systems is already quite impressive + > and is likely to grow when IRSpy goes live. The system works fast + > enough, and I like the looks of it. + +Thanks, that's good to hear! + + _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ +/o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk +)_v__/\ "When a man is tired of Ankh Morpork, he is tired of ankle-deep + slurry" -- Terry Pratchett, "Mort" + +From mike Wed Apr 18 14:25:27 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil t t nil nil nil nil] + ["5865" "Wednesday" "18" "April" "2007" "16:25:09" "+0300" "Juha Hakala" "juha.hakala@helsinki.fi" "<46261C35.6040402@helsinki.fi>" "137" "Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki" "^X-Spam-Status:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-path: +Envelope-to: mike@indexdata.com +Delivery-date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:24:50 +0200 +Received: from bagel.indexdata.dk [213.150.43.11] + by localhost.localdomain with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.2) + for (single-drop); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:25:27 +0100 (BST) +Received: from sender-02.it.helsinki.fi ([128.214.205.137]) + by bagel.indexdata.dk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) + id 1HeA9F-0002xX-WF; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:24:50 +0200 +Received: from orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (orm6.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.244]) + by sender-02.it.helsinki.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3IDOacL003964 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); + Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:24:36 +0300 +Received: from [128.214.91.248] (oktas-2.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.248]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3IDOZkA005626 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:24:36 +0300 +Message-ID: <46261C35.6040402@helsinki.fi> +User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <46261259.5020700@indexdata.dk> +In-Reply-To: <46261259.5020700@indexdata.dk> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sender-02.it.helsinki.fi id l3IDOacL003964 +X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 128.214.205.137 +X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: mike@indexdata.com, quinn@indexdata.com +X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: juha.hakala@helsinki.fi +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on bagel.indexdata.dk +X-Spam-Level: +X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) +X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on bagel.indexdata.dk) +X-UIDL: a9Z!!L?D"!:?R"!V%7"! +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham + version=3.0.3 +From: Juha Hakala +To: "Per M. Hansen" +CC: Mike Taylor , Sebastian Hammer , + Kristiina Hormia , + Dorrit Gustafsson +Subject: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki +Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:25:09 +0300 + +Dear Per, + +We did not want to spend much time on testing the application until it=20 +was declared to be ready by Index Data. Any testing done on earlier=20 +versions must be repeated with the final release, and the time spent on=20 +testing would increase accordingly. + +We assumed that testing would take place late 2006, and we had a=20 +seasoned programmer who would have been able to take care of the task.=20 +He left us in the end of December as planned, so at the moment we do not=20 +have a technical expert available for testing on short notice. Please=20 +keep in mind that we could not prepare ourselves properly for testing in=20 +2007 also because we did not know exactly when ID will be able to=20 +complete the IRSpy development. Once Mike's note about IRSpy being=20 +available for testing arrived, following discussions with other=20 +directors and experts within the library, I came up with the plan sent=20 +to Mike Taylor earlier today. + +Paying the entire invoice before the testing is completed is not what we=20 +normally do, even with good partners such as ID. Your proposal will be=20 +discussed in the library board, but I must admit that my gut feeling is=20 +that the answer will be negative. From our point of view it is not=20 +entirely our fault that we can not complete the testing fast. I do not=20 +remember if our contract says anything about how fast we are assumed to=20 +carry out the testing; if it does, then we have to reconsider the=20 +testing proposal I have drafted. + +I'm sorry for being a bit negative this time. But we have bought a lot=20 +of software from various vendors, and there are some principles we=20 +always stick to. What you propose would be against some of them. + +Best regards, + +Juha Hakala + + +Per M. Hansen wrote: +> Dear Juha, +> +> Thank you for your mail. +> +> This project has been in progress for quite some time now, and this is=20 +> unfortunately entirely our fault and we are very sorry about that. The=20 +> long development time has however also given you a very long time to=20 +> conduct you testing of the software. On this basis I don't understand=20 +> why it has to take so long time before you can perform the final=20 +> testing of the system. I would therefor like to be able to invoice you=20 +> now, with the clause that we of course will fix any problem in the=20 +> software that you may find, that is included in the requirements.=20 +> Would that work for you? +> +> Regards, +> +> Per M=F8rkegaard Hansen, COO +> Index Data +>> Hello Mike, +>> +>> After some internal discussions we have decided to proceed with the=20 +>> IRSpy testing in the following manner: +>> +>> 1. Initial testing, to be carried out by Ms. Katri Kananen, will=20 +>> concentrate on end user point of view. Katri is very experienced copy=20 +>> cataloger who is familiar with both Z39.50 and BookWhere. Comparing=20 +>> the target data in BookWhere (which has been manually produced) and=20 +>> in IRSpy will provide some views on how reliable automatically=20 +>> generated data is. Since IRSpy contains more targets than BookWhere=20 +>> (2600 to about 2000) Katri will also be able to add new targets to=20 +>> BookWhere and see how they "work". +>> +>> 2. After Katri has finished her part of the work in late May / early=20 +>> June we'll proceed to technical testing, to be carried out by Ere=20 +>> Maijala whose background is in programming. Since Ere's schedule is=20 +>> tight (his main responsibility is our MetaLib/SFX portal) I am not=20 +>> sure how much time he'll be able to spend on testing, but we'll see=20 +>> what happens. Implementation of the new MetaLib version keeps Ere and=20 +>> his colleagues busy for the time being. But we wish to complete=20 +>> testing before summer vacations; I hope this is OK for ID. +>> +>> It is our belief that IRSpy will help us in two areas,=20 +>> BookWhere-based copy cataloguing and MetaLib portal maintenance. The=20 +>> testers represent these two areas, and the outcome of the test will=20 +>> already provide some insights of how useful the tool will be, for the=20 +>> national library and for the (Finnish) library network in general. +>> +>> If Adam and his colleagues are able to test this version of the=20 +>> application (like they have tested earlier releases), we would like=20 +>> to receive a report of the results too, in order to avoid=20 +>> re-inventing the same wheels. +>> +>> I have taken a short look at IRSpy. One feature I missed was=20 +>> geographic location (country) of the server, which in many cases=20 +>> could be easily derived from the host name. Browsing an alphabetical=20 +>> list for Finnish servers was rather frustrating, and a copy=20 +>> cataloguer would prefer a country-based representation of servers.=20 +>> Moreover, there are quite a lot of servers with 0 % reliability,=20 +>> eventually some kind of weeding process should be implemented for=20 +>> the servers which obviously are no longer functional at all or have=20 +>> moved to some other place. Presentation of the supported attributes=20 +>> is as compact as it gets; lay users might prefer a more verbose=20 +>> option should one be available. +>> +>> But in spite of these critical comments, I am quite happy with what=20 +>> I've seen. The number of target systems is already quite impressive=20 +>> and is likely to grow when IRSpy goes live. The system works fast=20 +>> enough, and I like the looks of it. +>> +>> Best regards, +>> +>> Juha +>> +>> --=20 +>> +>> --=20 +>> +>> Juha Hakala +>> Director, Information Technology +>> +>> The National Library of Finland P.O.Box 15 (Unioninkatu 36, room=20 +>> 503), FIN-00014 Helsinki University +>> Email juha.hakala@helsinki.fi, tel +358 50 382 7678 =20 +> + + +--=20 + +-- + + Juha Hakala + Director, Information Technology + + The National Library of Finland=20 + P.O.Box 15 (Unioninkatu 36, room 503), FIN-00014 Helsinki University + Email juha.hakala@helsinki.fi, tel +358 50 382 7678 +=20 + + + + +From mike Wed Apr 18 14:25:25 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + ["3501" "Wednesday" "18" "April" "2007" "15:21:01" "+0300" "Juha Hakala" "juha.hakala@helsinki.fi" nil "92" "Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki" "^X-Spam-Status:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-path: +Envelope-to: mike@indexdata.com +Delivery-date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:12:04 +0200 +Received: from bagel.indexdata.dk [213.150.43.11] + by localhost.localdomain with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.2) + for (single-drop); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:25:25 +0100 (BST) +Received: from sender-01.it.helsinki.fi ([128.214.205.139]) + by bagel.indexdata.dk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) + id 1He9x3-0002La-Si; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:12:04 +0200 +Received: from orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (orm6.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.244]) + by sender-01.it.helsinki.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3ICKTrq022473 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); + Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:20:30 +0300 +Received: from [128.214.91.248] (oktas-2.lib.helsinki.fi [128.214.91.248]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by orm6.lib.helsinki.fi (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ICKT8J031907 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:20:29 +0300 +Message-ID: <46260D2D.3010200@helsinki.fi> +User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <4625C681.10007@helsinki.fi> <17958.1082.518813.567339@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <17958.1082.518813.567339@localhost.localdomain> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 128.214.205.139 +X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: mike@indexdata.com, quinn@indexdata.com +X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: juha.hakala@helsinki.fi +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on bagel.indexdata.dk +X-Spam-Level: +X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) +X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on bagel.indexdata.dk) +X-UIDL: pfK!!M7c"!>f~"!"8#"! +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, + RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100,RAZOR2_CHECK autolearn=no version=3.0.3 +From: Juha Hakala +To: Mike Taylor +CC: Ere Maijala , + Katri Kananen , + Kristiina Hormia , + Ari Rouvari , + "Adam Horvath (adam@oszk.hu)" , + Esa Kurki , + Sebastian Hammer , perhans@indexdata.dk +Subject: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki +Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:21:01 +0300 + +Hello Mike, + +See comments below. There are not many of them. + +As regards the timing of the test over here: I am sorry that we can not +start the technical testing any faster. Late last year - when IRSpy was +supposed to be available for testing - we did have a qualified person, +but he is no longer with us. + +Mike Taylor wrote: +> +> If you want to narrow by domain-name, try this. Go to: +> http://irspy.indexdata.com/find.html +> In the "Host" field, enter +> *.fi +> Set the "Sort by" dropdown to +> Title +> And press the Search button. +> +> At the moment, there seems to be only one matching entry (which makes +> the sorting criterion a bit irrelevant :-) This was a surprise to me, +> but does seem to be correct. +> +I was not able to find a single Finnish server via browsing; my patience +ran out first. Many Finnish sites that are definitely free (like most +OPACs in university libraries) are missing from the IRSpy server list, +although it is probably the most complete one in existence. This shows +only that there are a lot more Z & SRU servers out there than we know, +and the fact that the libraries have not been able to share this +information efficiently between themselves keeps many useful services +hidden from users such as copy cataloguers or patrons with specific +regional interests. Patrons with specific topical interests would of +course need collection descriptions, but that is a different story. +> > Presentation of the supported attributes is as compact as it gets; +> > lay users might prefer a more verbose option should one be +> > available. +> +> You mean this? +> +> Bib-1 Use attributes 36 access points: 1-9, 12-13, 16-19, +> 21, 25, 28, 33-44, 47, 1003, 1007, +> 1016, 1035-1036 +> +> You're thinking that users might prefer to see "33, 34, 35, 36, 37, +> 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44" rather than "33-44"? I have to say that +> does not seem likely to me. +> +That would not seem likely to me either :-). + +Instead of verbose I should have said human readable (sorry, I am not a +native English speaker and sometimes pick a wrong term or make a mess of +the grammar). Especially if you don't have Z39.50 readily at hand it may +be a bit difficult to find out what f.ex. Use attribute 7 means. Most +human users (especially those who are not system analysts but e.g. +cataloguers) might well prefer a display stating "ISBN" instead of "7", +especially if they only want to see if ISBN searching is possible. Of +course it is possible to check from Bib-1 the meaning of the codes, and +eventually one memorizes quite a few of them, but why should we make it +necessary to the users to take that extra step? + +Best regards, + +Juha +> > But in spite of these critical comments, I am quite happy with what +> > I've seen. The number of target systems is already quite impressive +> > and is likely to grow when IRSpy goes live. The system works fast +> > enough, and I like the looks of it. +> +> Thanks, that's good to hear! +> +> _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ +> /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk +> )_v__/\ "When a man is tired of Ankh Morpork, he is tired of ankle-deep +> slurry" -- Terry Pratchett, "Mort" +> +> + + +-- + +-- + + Juha Hakala + Director, Information Technology + + The National Library of Finland + P.O.Box 15 (Unioninkatu 36, room 503), FIN-00014 Helsinki University + Email juha.hakala@helsinki.fi, tel +358 50 382 7678 + + + + + +From mike@miketaylor.org.uk Wed Apr 18 15:12:21 2007 +X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + ["3482" "Wednesday" "18" "April" "2007" "15:12:20" "+0100" "Mike Taylor" "mike@indexdata.com" nil "84" "Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] + nil) +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: mike +Delivered-To: mike@miketaylor.org.uk +Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id 1B25DAC0F7; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:12:21 +0100 (BST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <17958.10052.988213.697561@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <46260D2D.3010200@helsinki.fi> +References: <4625C681.10007@helsinki.fi> + <17958.1082.518813.567339@localhost.localdomain> + <46260D2D.3010200@helsinki.fi> +X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under Emacs 21.4.1 +From: Mike Taylor +To: Juha Hakala +Cc: Ere Maijala , + Katri Kananen , + Kristiina Hormia , + Ari Rouvari , + "Adam Horvath (adam@oszk.hu)" , + Esa Kurki , + Sebastian Hammer , + perhans@indexdata.dk +Subject: Re: IRSpy testing in Helsinki +Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:12:20 +0100 + +Juha Hakala writes: + > As regards the timing of the test over here: I am sorry that we can + > not start the technical testing any faster. Late last year - when + > IRSpy was supposed to be available for testing - we did have a + > qualified person, but he is no longer with us. + +I do take your point. + + > > If you want to narrow by domain-name, try this. Go to: + > > http://irspy.indexdata.com/find.html + > > In the "Host" field, enter + > > *.fi + > > Set the "Sort by" dropdown to + > > Title + > > And press the Search button. + > > + > > At the moment, there seems to be only one matching entry (which + > > makes the sorting criterion a bit irrelevant :-) This was a + > > surprise to me, but does seem to be correct. + > + > I was not able to find a single Finnish server via browsing; my + > patience ran out first. + +Probably because there is only the one! But of course you are very +welcome to add more. + + > Many Finnish sites that are definitely free (like most OPACs in + > university libraries) are missing from the IRSpy server list, + > although it is probably the most complete one in existence. This + > shows only that there are a lot more Z & SRU servers out there than + > we know, and the fact that the libraries have not been able to + > share this information efficiently between themselves keeps many + > useful services hidden from users such as copy cataloguers or + > patrons with specific regional interests. + +All true. Please help to fix this problem! :-) + + > > > Presentation of the supported attributes is as compact as it gets; + > > > lay users might prefer a more verbose option should one be + > > > available. + > > + > > You mean this? + > > + > > Bib-1 Use attributes 36 access points: 1-9, 12-13, 16-19, + > > 21, 25, 28, 33-44, 47, 1003, 1007, + > > 1016, 1035-1036 + > > + > > You're thinking that users might prefer to see "33, 34, 35, 36, 37, + > > 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44" rather than "33-44"? I have to say that + > > does not seem likely to me. + > + > That would not seem likely to me either :-). + +:-) + + > Instead of verbose I should have said human readable (sorry, I am + > not a native English speaker and sometimes pick a wrong term or + > make a mess of the grammar). + +You _are_ joking here, right? Like most Scandivians, your written +English is _far_ better than that of most native Brits. + + > Especially if you don't have Z39.50 readily at hand it may be a bit + > difficult to find out what f.ex. Use attribute 7 means. Most human + > users (especially those who are not system analysts but e.g. + > cataloguers) might well prefer a display stating "ISBN" instead of + > "7", especially if they only want to see if ISBN searching is + > possible. Of course it is possible to check from Bib-1 the meaning + > of the codes, and eventually one memorizes quite a few of them, but + > why should we make it necessary to the users to take that extra + > step? + +Gotcha. I agree that it would be a nice enhancement to be able to see +the codes interpreted. + +Would you please add this feature request using Bugzilla? Not only +will that make sure it gets done, but it will also reassure us at ID +that you are comfortable using the system. Thanks. + + _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ +/o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk +)_v__/\ "Don't ask what you can do for your country. Ask what you can + do for your mother" -- Joe Lieberman. + + -- 1.7.10.4